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  1. #1
    Join Date
    31.07.2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    164

    Default 20x138B earliest date?

    Does anyone know the earliest production date of the 20x138B round?

    The reason I ask is that the Italian Scotti 20mm cannon was said to be designed around this round and that project was dated 1928, which seems earlier than I would have expected for an independent designer like Scotti to have got hold of the ammunition...?
    Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarryhs.co.uk

  2. #2
    Join Date
    27.04.2006
    Location
    amsterdam
    Posts
    103

    Default

    Hello Tony,

    An earlier Scotti design fired a 20 x 110 round, the case of which is described as being part HS (case head and body) and part Oerlikon S (the neck) in the Anderhub FlaK book.
    Perhaps there was a mix up of info regarding the dates / guns?
    Anderhub seems to place earliest production of the 20 x 138/B round in the early nineteenthirties.
    Last edited by pzgr40/42; 07.11.2017 at 20:44.
    Flogging will continue untill morale improves

  3. #3
    Join Date
    31.07.2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Thank you for that. I was suspecting that there might be two different Scotti 20mm guns using different ammunition. This is what I have put together so far, mainly based on info in Chinn supplemented by some other sources:

    The Scotti Cannone-Mitragliera da 20/77 was developed from 1928 as an aircraft gun, but at that time the Regia Aeronautica had no interest in guns bigger than 12.7 mm calibre. In 1932 Scotti sold the rights to the gun to Oerlikon (except for Italian use), who made limited numbers for sale, mainly to China and South America, although the Netherlands also acquired some just before the German invasion of 1940. In 1938 Isotta-Fraschini acquired the production rights and started making the cannon for the AA role, on either a fixed pedestal mounting (Mod.39) or a two-wheeled carriage (Mod.41), and about 300 saw service with both the Regio Esercito and the Regia Marina, the latter also including use in a modified RM35 twin mounting plus an M41 single in a disapppearing mounting in some submarines.
    Clearly, the later AA Scotti is the one which used the 20x138B. The problem with the 1928 date is that it is not only too early for the 20x138B, it is also too early for the Hispano 20x110 and even the Oerlikon 20x110B (which emerged in 1929 IIRC). So was Chinn wrong (not for the first time)? If not, what might the early Scotti have fired?
    Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarryhs.co.uk

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