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  1. #11
    Join Date
    13.10.2006
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    terra Marahensium
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    319

    Default All on-line

    ...
    And what prevents you from doing it online. Do you already have a book title, can you find and scan your library?
    https://www.archivportal-d.de/item/U...st&hitNumber=1
    Last edited by AKON; 09.03.2018 at 11:05.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    30.03.2004
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    D/Sachsen
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    752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKON View Post
    ...
    And what prevents you from doing it online.
    Scanning documents there for own usage is ok but it is very expensive if you can't do it yourself because of a too long travel. If you must go to work and living far form the archive it's very difficult (I know what I am speaking about). The best opportunities you have when you are pensionier, having a lot of money, no wife which is complaining, a short way to the archive and a lot of time .

    Putting the documents online (like Nabob did) is like "publishing". And for publishing nearly all the german state archives have very expensive prices. These prices are depending from the number of printed books. For example one page of published material in a book with a circulation of 2500 pieces costs EUR 40.-. More published make the price higher. For publications in the Internet the rule is mostly that you must ask for a special calculated price because the number of useres which can access the documents can be very large. I think storage fees for 100+ years are included in the prices

    So if Nabob's pages are scanned in a german Archive (which I think) and they can identify it by the library stamps on the title page he could (in the worst case) be counted a lot of money because he published the pages.

    This procedure has nothing to do with copyright laws (this book should be out of copyright because it was made by a former state institution) but it is regulated in the "Archivgesetz". All german federal states have their own Archivgesetz but Content shouldn't vary much.
    "Die Geschosse sollen, durch die Kraft der Pulvergase mit großer Geschwindigkeit aus dem Rohr geschleudert, am Ziel lebende Wesen außer Gefecht setzen oder Gebrauchsgegenstände des Gegners zerstören" [Pulkowski] -> Das sollte man nie vergessen

  3. #13
    Join Date
    13.10.2006
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    terra Marahensium
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    Default +

    @ Alpini
    The state does not create us acceptable conditions for the dissemination and thus the development of human knowledge .. Then we have to create the conditions within our own possibilities What is advantageous for the state is not convenient for the citizens ...
    In the Constitutional Charter of Rights and Freedoms there is an inalienable right to disseminate the information in a literal sense and in fact whatever expressly without conditions, that is the right we can use to exchange information between ourselves and share the work that was created by scanning, searching, riding, etc ... if we we can distort the price among more interested people, so the more people are scaling the cost of scanning.
    So no one can ask me to let anyone (do not let go of their property), and that's just the scanned party (as you put the example of Bob).

    I pay taxes and I pay for generations the service I use or not. So much for saving 100 years in the archive. Interestingly, the price of scans is disappointing In the price list, it is expressly mentioned the scanning and price format, ... not the time the document is stored .... Posting "warehouse" while creating the scan is unethical. Firstly, for the cost of the scanner, the minute of work and wear, a service that is at the level of millions of pages of good scanners ...

    So by publishing the price list, the state has determined the price of the service and has revealed what understands under this price, but my price is only at the level of the purchase of the equipment and travel to an archive in which the state can never compete. Is it therefore whether the price actually calculated by the state was competing? Here is what is not forbidden by law is allowed And is it generally in the archive law expressly forbidden to scan your own facilities without state aid and use of state services for a citizen forbidden?
    The state has created a monopoly on paper storage And does not want to give up. "Official work" is the property of all citizens, regardless of the date of birth and the number of hands on the hand.










    I have been scanning for more than 20 years now ... I know what this is all about If I wrote to you here what everything the state has designed as an obstacle to acquiring and sharing information among people it would take a long time and it would not be a nice reading. On one side is the state and its archive management and on the other hand is an individual (unconfirmed citizen) - you see that unequal status Institutioning the document is the first step to control and control access to information .. the second step is to pay for access ... third the step is a limitation of exchange ... everything in real is already built on traditional institutions. The Internet is a platform that the state will never completely control ... and its "publishing control" is just a plan to limit the human being.
    ...
    Last edited by AKON; 10.03.2018 at 12:15.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    30.03.2004
    Location
    D/Sachsen
    Posts
    752

    Default

    Hello Akon,

    my sentence about that the publishing cost seems to include storage fees for 100 years was of course meant ironically! I wrote it as a joke because publishing prices are so expensive.

    The archive which I visit regulary has scanning cost of 0,15 € per scan if you use their scanner in self service. If you order scans online the price is between 0,60 € and 4,5 € depending on format and scan resolution which is incredibly expensive.

    Taking photos with an own camera is strictly forbidden (because they want to earn money). The reading room is equipped with ~10 observation cameras so you can't take photos secretly . And other german archives have still much higher prices which range until 8 € for ONE scanned page. I think these prices are meant to defend against as much work as possible for them.

    I wanted to show the actual german situation why so few archive documents are shared in the internet and which potential dangers (these are small but present) are there when publishing arcive documents in the internet. About what I have noticed the situation about "free knowledge for everyone" is much better in France for example. In my country they are just talking about this sentence but the reality is the opposite.

    I totally agree with everything you wrote, it's my opinion too but I can't change the actual reality. Every day I hear how good the german economy is running at moment and how much money our government is earning through the taxes but if I want scans of a 200 pages archive document I must invest nearly a complete monthly wage. These are facts which don't fit together but there isn't any party which would be willing to change such unimportant things so that I could vote for them
    "Die Geschosse sollen, durch die Kraft der Pulvergase mit großer Geschwindigkeit aus dem Rohr geschleudert, am Ziel lebende Wesen außer Gefecht setzen oder Gebrauchsgegenstände des Gegners zerstören" [Pulkowski] -> Das sollte man nie vergessen

  5. #15
    Join Date
    13.10.2006
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    terra Marahensium
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    319

    Default ++

    @ Mr Alpini ,
    Yes, I understand the irony is necessary in this case.
    He will introduce you to the situation in our country. The rate of our currency is 1:25. for one euro you need 27 CZK - The salary of the laborer does not exceed CZK 30,000, - net. This makes your (German) archive price lists at 8 / Euro per page moving at astronomical prices. <250 CZK is the price of a modest purchase of food for the normal day of the family in the store .... So nothing like bad in the archives of Germany is not considered if you are interested in technical stuff bes drawings you can not do ... And now you our pluses In the Czech Republic you can take pictures and scan in the number you want. There are some local "commanders" who want to limit the number, but it does not have the support in the law. So you can make 4000 photos a day ... Well, that's probably the main priority of this system. The pricelist for the service is as astonishing as it is - no one reads it because it is set up nonsensically and everybody gets it with a mobile- camera ... After the attempts to nationalize what you shot that day came to the state, you can take away without having to share your job Hurray we have the Democracy 2.0 (using our own tools).
    Last edited by AKON; 11.03.2018 at 01:11.

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