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PzGr40
14.04.2012, 13:20
Question; is the 500 Lb Mk82 snakeye (with the pop out cross shaped retarder fins) used (or allowed to be used) in combination with the 1 meter fuze probe extender (daisy cutter)? Does anyone have a picture or a description/manual of this being used. I cannot find any picture of this combination on the internet.
Thanks in advance.
Regards, DJH

x
14.04.2012, 18:57
It would be good to know if there are limitations at all when it comes to fuzes and fin assembly configurations on the MK81-MK84 series.

pzgr40/42
21.05.2012, 16:13
Hey DJH,

I'm sure it would be technically posibble to fit an Snakeye with a fuze extender (normal MK82 body), wheter it was ever done I'm not sure (I don't recall seeing pics of such).

Somehow it would not seem to make sense, the fins on the snakeye being there to retard the bomb's dropping speed in low level bombing (to prevent fragments hitting the plane delivering the bombs), then why inrcrease the risk off just latter by having the bombs detonate above ground, thus increasing (or better: less decreasing) fragment speed because of lack of (detonation) energy absorbance in "terra firma".

regards,

Menno.

Just my two cents........but I'm no

PzGr40
22.05.2012, 14:52
I allready got the awnser ; The snakeye tail is a navy development, the ballute tail is an air force development. The extended rod was an air force development too.
In short; a ballute tail with a extended nose rod is a possible combination as this is both air force stuff.
A snakeye tail with an extended nose rod is however not used (according to the official papers). Another point is that on a navy vessel ammo preparing space is limetid , so using a nose probe takes too much space. Therefore it is not a known combination for naval usage.

Regards, DJH

x
22.05.2012, 16:47
I allready got the awnser ; The snakeye tail is a navy development, the ballute tail is an air force development. The extended rod was an air force development too.
In short; a ballute tail with a extended nose rod is a possible combination as this is both air force stuff.
A snakeye tail with an extended nose rod is however not used (according to the official papers). Another point is that on a navy vessel ammo preparing space is limetid , so using a nose probe takes too much space. Therefore it is not a known combination for naval usage.

Regards, DJH

The AIR being an air force development did not keep the navy away as it seems.
From: NAVEDTRA 14313, Aviation Ordnanceman, 2001
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj263/EOD72/navyimg-1.jpg

I wonder about the space issue since the fuzes (and the extenders might be treated as such too) get fitted only after the bombs are hooked up to the pylons - all that on deck of an AC then where space is less critical since the rods are shorter than the length of the aircraft's front section.

REDHAT6
09.08.2012, 19:54
Just to throw something out on why you might not see the extensions used on MK82s with "Snake-eyes" might have something to do with the speed that the jet aircraft "fast movers" is traveling and the forces acting upon the ordnance being carried vs those experenced by "slow movers". I could see the extender being tore off during a high speed manouver by a fast mover. Just another thought.

x
09.08.2012, 21:29
That is a good point, g-forces might be a factor here. Seems we really need a manual on these.

REDHAT6
13.08.2012, 04:40
By the time snake eye fins were in use, the "new low drag" bombs were designed to use the newly developed electrical fuzing and were manufactured differently than the older series of bombs that used mechanical fuzing. That is why you will most likely never see a picture of the fuze rod extender with snake eye fins in actual use. But generally in displays and museums, if it fits and looks cool, it is good to go.

x
13.08.2012, 09:12
Seems they been used on "slow" aircrafts (= low g-forces):

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=65013&d=1334434915

REDHAT6
14.08.2012, 01:36
That would seem correct, slow movers compared to fighter/bomber jets.


Seems they been used on "slow" aircrafts (= low g-forces):

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=65013&d=1334434915

HAZORD
15.08.2012, 12:01
I'm also thinking that the Navy would not use the Fuze Extenders because of the G-forces on the bombs when the plane is launched from a catapult. The Air Force would not have that problem. Here are couple of photos of Air Force Phantoms with "Daisy Cutter" fuze extenders.

The Daisy Cutters were also used on the 15,000 Lb. BLU-82 which was dropped by Skycrane helicopters and C-130 Aircraft, and the MOAB bomb used two of the fuze extenders.

REDHAT6
15.08.2012, 17:03
Note the 2 pictures of the F-4s the bombs have conical fins attached not snake eyes. But with these pictures it would seem that the aircraftspeeed does not have much to do with the fuze extenders use. I would think that by using conical fins the planning would be for the aircraft to drop the ordnance and be out of the frag zone by the time the ordnance detonated. In otherwords not close air support, while snake eyes would allow the aircraft to get closer to the target (more accurate targeting) for release of the ordnance and by retarding the ordnance fall to earth allow the aircraft to remove itself from the frag zone upon ordnance detonation.

pzgr40/42
21.08.2012, 18:25
Apart from the a/c speed vs frag zone discussion and navy vs airforce discussion,... isn't the ballute a much later development than the snakeye set ??

regards

x
21.08.2012, 21:44
I do not recall the AIR's from Vietnam. Guess they were later.

REDHAT6
21.08.2012, 22:14
Yes from everything I have read, learned and observed "balutes" rertarding devices were developed after "Snake-eyes". IIRC I first started (eyes on not pictures or drawings) seeing balutes on the bombing ranges in the early-mid 1980s, they may have been used earlier,but this is knowledge of when I started to observe them.

I agree with "x" in that I do not remember see balutes in pictures or documents from the VN time period. Your mileage may vary.

Nabob
22.08.2012, 15:25
Hallo,
I came across some info in an Air Force F-4 manual from 1980.

Bob

REDHAT6
22.08.2012, 20:22
The page indicates that only MK82 500 and MK 83 1000 lb low drag General purpose (LDGP) bombs were to be used with the fuze extender on that airframe. Each airframe has its own service approved fuse and ordnance combinations. It seems that my thought of speed (hi speed/low speed) and "G" forces effect on the ordnance with fuxe extenders was incorrect.

Oh well, back to the drawing board. I wish some air frame drivers would chime in, to help us grounded folks out.


Hallo,
I came across some info in an Air Force F-4 manual from 1980.

Bob

PzGr40
26.07.2015, 14:20
Just found a movie showing the usage of a daisy cutter in combination with a snakeye fin set. Look at 44:15, 44:20, 44:46 and 44:52

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tLZZ4V0c00

Regards, DJH